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EP 158: Making a Murderer - Jerome Buting vs. Ken Kratz

Making a Murderer received over 16 million viewers in its first two months on Netflix, and the docu-series made convicted murderer Steven Avery a household name. Many people now believe Avery was framed and over 500,000 Americans have petitioned the President for a pardon for Avery.

Today, the prosecutor Ken Kratz and Jerome Buting, the defense attorney for Steven Avery, will argue their cases and discuss what Making a Murderer did and didn’t show you. They’ll both share their thoughts on the appeal of Brendan Dassey’s conviction and recent statements by Steven Avery’s former girlfriend Jodi Stachowski in which she says he’s guilty. Plus Jerome Buting will discuss alternative suspects for the Theresa Halback murder, and Ken Kratz reveals why he and Steven Avery later became pen pals.

Order Jerome Buting’s book The Illusion of Justice: Inside Making a Murderer and America's Broken System and Ken Kratz’s book Avery: The Case Against Steven Avery and What "Making a Murderer" Gets Wrong on Amazon or download the audio versions for free with a special offer at You can watch all 10 episodes of Making a Murderer with a subscription to Netflix.

Today's podcast is sponsored by GoDaddy. Visit and enter our promo code "KICK30" to get 30% off a new domain.

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